Three months after she did a live coaching session with Sharon Pearson for #Perspectives podcast ‘Mother Load’, Sydney corporate recruiter and life coach Sasha Dumaresq returns for a second session and follow-up episode. Sharon and Sasha discuss how the strategies and frameworks explored in the first session have helped Sasha to let go of expectations about ‘perfect’ children to empower both adults and kids. Again, Sharon demonstrates expert coaching does not need fancy linguistic acrobatics and Sasha reveals the “most outstanding part” of what she took home has been “the discovery of so much brilliance in my daughter … in her just being who she is without me needing to focus or change or put some sort of mask on her it. It is just seeing her, and there have been some wonderful shifts.” The women also explore new frames for Sasha to try at a time of day she and her three daughters find challenging: the scramble to get everyone out of the house for school at 8.30am.
ZERO: THE DISCOVERY OF SO MUCH BRILLIANCE
—Sharon welcomes Sasha, who found their first coaching session (see ‘Mother Load’ Perspectives podcast) and the territory that was covered “absolutely fantastic. There was so much to it.”
—Sasha says the “most outstanding part” of the first session has been “the discovery of so much brilliance in my daughter … in her just being who she is without me needing to focus or change or put some sort of mask on her. It is just seeing her, and there has been some wonderful shifts.”
—She elaborates on the shifts: “I think I was over-indulging in the guilt and the emotions … that would really take me down that journey of guilt and feeing as though she’s not good enough, I’m not good enough, whereas I have not since our session indulged in that.”
—Sasha “loves” that her first session didn’t focus on the origins of her challenges. “I think you recognised I’d done that excessively.” What she found “amazing” was “that reframe of, ‘look how wonderfully my daughter’s doing. She was doing her emotions her way and I couldn’t reach those, and that reframe … really brought out her brilliance and that’s what I wasn’t seeing in her.”
—She laughs and is delighted by how her daughter—the eldest of three—claps back at her sometimes. “I’m loving it. Show me your spunk! I’m like, brilliant, go you, whereas in the past I might have seen that as a sign of disrespect or some other bullshit. She’s bringing more of her and that is exactly what I wanted from this, to bring more of her.”
—Sharon applauds Sasha’s commitment to her family: “You just ran with it. I’m not taking any credit. You showed up ready to go.”
—Sasha admits the day after the first podcast, she “absolutely cocked it up” with her daughter despite having a plan and being inspired and excited: “The next day I reverted straight back into the rigidity, the control, which was excellent because I really learned while I have this new way of seeing things, I’m still human, still learning, still going to mess this up and that’s okay. Messing up is key to growth.”
—Sharon: “Let’s just shine a torchlight on that. You’re recognising the self-awareness is so in tune now to the situation and your play in this is dynamic, you’re recognising where you show up as one or the other. That’s tremendously empowering for you and her.”
—When Sharon notes is sounds like Sasha didn’t do the guilt trip, she agrees: “I realised the forgiveness I’m giving myself.”
9.30: RIPPLE EFFECTS
—Asked if she’s noticed any ripple effects beyond herself to her daughter or family members, Sasha reinforces that she is loving her daughter’s “feistiness” and is “honouring” the deliberate actions she takes rather than adhering to her mum’s “fast talker, fast mover, fast action” qualities.
—Sasha: “I’m honouring the time she might need to process things a bit more slowly. And I’m giving her more autonomy. I’m allowing her more space so she has less resistance. When I’m going, ‘come on, come on’, it ends up being this big power struggle.” Their new “flow” creates “a greater connection between us, whereas I thought if she does what I want her to do that was being connected. It was very messed up but now I have perspective on it.”
—Asked by Sharon about a shift in dynamic just for Sasha’s daughter, not in terms of relating to her mother, she says her own mother is staying with the family after a five-month absence. “She said my daughter has changed so much, she’s less shut down, she’s more joyful, more interested, more communicative. The messaging I’ve been giving her has been, ‘You are loved and you are safe and whatever decision you want to make right now there’s no right or wrong’. I’m allowing her to see her decisions can get messy and that’s okay, she’s always in that safe container of love. I don’t get it right all the time … there’s definitely a weight coming off me, and you’re right, it has impacted the family. There’s less outbursts, there’s less of a power struggle between her and I.”
—Sharon suggests the word “brittle” to describe how the power struggle used to feel. “It’s more malleable,” Sasha agrees. “We’ve sat down and talked values like you suggested … the eldest came up with a list of things that are important to her. Creativity was one. Being kind. Fun. Caring. Communicating. Then she said Lego! Lego is life here at our house.”
17.50: LEGO AND OTHER BUILDING BLOCKS
—Sharon reveals she loves Lego (“an incredibly beautiful thing to do”) and asks Sasha how the mother and daughter are communicating, as noted as an important value by the nine-year-old girl.
—Sasha’s daughter goes to bed half an hour after the other girls and that means she gets special read and snuggle and meditation time on the coach with mummy: “I really love that little half hour with her. She’s reaching out for that more.”
—Sharon: “Good on you, creating that space for her. It’s just beautiful.”
—Sasha: “If I think about how amazing this little girl is and the shifts that she’s made, if I look 12 months ago she was quite shut down and not very communicative and I recognise that she wasn’t allowed this space just to be her because I was so about action and process. I’m enjoying her so much more than I ever had as a result.”
—Sharon loves Sasha’s self-awareness and experiencing joy around her daughter: “Your eyes are alive, so much more relaxed around your face. There’s a playfulness about you, it’s delightful to see.”
—Asked what has come up for her and what she’d like to explore
and discover, Sasha says one thing is she still jumps back into ‘mum mode’ and can still be “rigid” in her behaviour with the children especially when they all need to get out of the house by 8.30am for school.
—Sharon: “There’s three elements to that: why you do that, what it is you do and then really significantly, how you do it energetically? Does that make sense? What you do is very consistent parenting with really healthy boundaries. But there’s a difference between parenting and control.”
—Sasha wants to focus on how she sometimes slips back into old patterns of “come on, fast, fast, I know that rattles everyone. And it would be lovely to again have another perspective shift on how I can get them to do what needs to be done.”
—Asked to share a snapshot of how the morning rush and associated tension is playing out, Sasha says she slips into mum mode but isn’t sure that needs to be unpacked: “I have the opportunity available to me to just shift that, and it’s a choice of how would I go about that … so I am less the martyr and more of a leader.”
—Sharon asks Sasha to paint a picture of her ideal of getting out of the house all at the same time.
—Sasha makes a game of it with her five-year-old (“you’re going to be ready before your sisters!”) so the idea is “bringing the fun and a little bit of adventure” with all of them: “They are over-reliant on me to drive things. The idea would be they know what needs to be done and do it because they delight in the idea of being n able to have control in their own days and ways and how they do it rather than it be externalised. We’re talking about external and intrinsic motivation really, aren’t we? But I’d love them to be intrinsically motivated.”
27.42: THE PLAYFUL APPROACH
—Sharon asks some of the ways Sasha can start shifting her kids developmentally appropriately towards a level of self-autonomy rather than being controlled.
—Sasha has no definite answers, “because I actually don’t know and that’s what’s really cool, it means there’s something really cool on the other side of me not knowing.”
—Sharon asks if there are strengths Sasha can draw on.
—Sasha: “I suppose it would be a sense of you know what you need to do and this is the time frame we’re going to, how about you do the things you need to do when you’re ready to do them, knowing 8.30 is the time we need to go … so it’s about you learning to trust you can do that without me.”
—Sharon: “Where are we on consequences? I’m not expecting them to understand delayed consequences like going to school without shoes but do they understand that it can chew up play time?
—Sasha says they do, “although at the same time that’s where I get dogmatic, so I’m wondering if they know when we need to leave and if they can interweave playing and getting ready then that outcome might be better for them because they have more autonomy.”
—Sharon: “Who says it has to be work then play for an eight or nine- year-old. Maybe it can all be playful?
—Sharon suggests an approach which has clear consequences: “You lose your playtime if you don’t get ready but that’s okay if you want to lose it. Let me know what’s going to suit you best.”
—Sasha: “The way it would have happened in the past is, ‘We are leaving the house now, if you don’t have your shoes and water bottle and lunch you are going without them’ and that would be enough. That’s real fear based and I don’t want that to be the motivation. I want to reduce that.”
—Sharon suggest the playful approach: “’No shoes and water bottle today, okay if that’s the choice.’” That’s true autonomy, making poor choices, it’s just again gauging developmental responses. It’s very easy to be the controlling parents until they hit 13 and can stand up to it, the rebellion is coming anyway. What I’ve been hearing you do which is absolutist is, ‘I will nag, you will be ready, I will have my way.’ Now it’s playing with a bit more of a grey zone and getting rid of that black and white thinking.”
—Sasha notes her girls have “tried to get that autonomy and I’ve undermined it: ‘No, we’re getting ready now, hurry up.’ It’s the undermining of that authority.”
—Asked where she is with planning ahead the night before, Sasha says the kids’ days are “very set up for them” and it’s “not a hotch-potch of disaster. It’s actually quite clear what has to happen” but that her girls are easily distracted by “shiny things.” Her thinking is, “let’s prepare, their thinking is, ‘I’m a child. I just want to play.”
39.50 A FLOW DAY
—Sasha says the days it all “magically” comes together are when she and the girls all sit in the car for the drive to school and sing tunes and “if feels wonderful” compared to the “exhausting” days chasing them up about water bottles.
—She wants it to be replicable and discusses offering a reward for the first child to be ready to leave the house. The idea of the first one to have their bag and water bottle gets to choose a song in the car is raised: “It’s creating a very positive energy for the morning which sets them up for the day.”
—Sharon suggests how she would language it, linking the task to the ultimate great outcome where there is flow and it’s about fun and playfulness: “Who’s thinking about the tune we’ll play in the car? I am.” She suggests Sasha switches it away from being competitive and shakes it up: “Sometimes it’s playful competition. Sometimes it’s just playful. Sometimes it’s goal oriented … I don’t think your eldest is designed for competition so much. She’s more in the flow.”
—Sharon suggests having a Top 5 near the door of things that need to be done, that the kids write up and use as a daily checklist: “So rather than saying, ‘Have you got your water bottle?’ it’s have you checked off the five things.” Rather than have you play micro, I’m shifting the energy away a bit so you’re not having to monitor five things times three. This will have them learn the process of things they’re responsible for.”
48.26: MOVING FORWARD
—Asked how that is sitting with her as a frame, Sasha says it’s “lovely” and that the kids need self-autonomy: “You’re right, making it more fun and focussed on the external outcome at the end of all that stuff we need to do. It’s a pleasure then, we’re in the car, we love listening to tunes. I love that’s turned the focus from leaving the house at 8.30 to when do we get to be in the car and listen to fun songs?”
—She says “another perspective shift has been really lovely. That’s now a strategy I can apply to anything I want the kids to do. Focus on the fun outcome for them, feeling how they can be self-autonomous to get there.”
—Sharon asks Sasha what she is admiring about herself: “Flexibility and willingness and the possibility of focussing on, ‘Ooh okay, now I know how it can be different.’ I can feel my energy behind it.”
—Sharon loves how much Sasha is self-directing. “I’m here to observe this and you get there so quickly. I love your commitment to this and to letting go of this. You’re a little highly strung like me and I love my highly strongness and to have kids in the mix who aren’t that way, what you’re needing to bring to the fore isn’t a natural place for you. I admire so much that you’re doing that. I get a lot of gratification out of ‘boom, boom, boom’, it makes perfect sense to me that I do everything quickly so I can have the fun later. The fact you’re letting go of that … I find it very inspiring.”
—Sharon asks Sasha to move forward to the future and see how it feels, looks, sounds.
—Sasha: “The immediate feeling is that they’re experiencing me in a different way, they’re experiencing themselves in a different way and they have more room to be who they are and develop within that space. I can see them adventuring into themselves more and adventuring more into the world. It’s a focus on the good. I want them to make more mistakes and I want them to learn from that. I’s space and playfulness and joy and the realising of external pressure. So that they can just flourish and be little bubbles in the world.”
—Sharon thanks Sasha; “I dig you so much. Get in touch if something is coming up that you want to celebrate or share. I’m just really into what you’re experiencing and have delight for what is happening for your family. There’s going to be messes, we know that and I love that you’re embracing that as much as the delightful stuff. Truly remarkable.”